[00:00:10.750] - Gordon
Hello.

[00:00:11.140] - Taylor
Hello.

[00:00:11.590] - Gordon
My name is Gordon from Drayson Design.

[00:00:13.390] - Taylor
And I'm Taylor from The Creative Tinker.

[00:00:15.580] - Gordon
And welcome to "This Week With Taylor and Gordon," a podcast and vidcast every week where we talk about things that have been happening in our businesses in the last seven days. And as you can see, none of, neither of us have had a haircut.

[00:00:32.020] - Taylor
Yep, we both need haircuts.

[00:00:32.020] - Gordon
My hair is getting very long and yours is, you've sort of moved it a little bit because it's, sort of a couple of days ago it was all out the front.

[00:00:42.610] - Taylor
Yeah, it just changes. Depends on when I have a shower or what happens.

[00:00:46.570] - Gordon
So the problem with having a haircut for me is that if we have one here, then it has to be a buzzcut. And that means choose a level and go all the way over, because none of us are hairdressers, and I don't really want to do that at the moment so. Are you the same?

[00:01:05.830] - Taylor
Yeah. I mean, my hairstyle is normally kind of short on the sides and back, and then it kind of stays long on top. So the top wouldn't have too much off that. But yeah, it's just the sides would get shorter. That's really.

[00:01:18.670] - Gordon
So we'll have to sort that at some point. But at the moment we have no options. We're still in lockdown. So, it's been a busy seven days.

[00:01:27.670] - Taylor
It has indeed.

[00:01:28.690] - Gordon
Yeah. It's always a busy seven days, for those of you who join us on a weekly basis. Thank you for that. We talked last week about the new website, so hopefully you've had a chance to go and have a look at it. Please leave your comments below either last week's video or this week's video, and let us know what you think of it. One thing that we have found with testing of other sites is that sometimes things don't quite work on every browser, on every device. So if you have a particular one that you find a bug with, let us know so that we can do something about it.

[00:02:09.580] - Taylor
Yeah. So this week I wanted to talk about choice of communication platforms. So there is lots out there. There's "Microsoft Teams" and kind of the Microsoft kind of ecosystem. There is "Slack," there are lots of others. And the one I wanted to talk about is "Discord." So "Discord" was originally created for people, gamers. So people that play video games, people that stream. And it was created for them as a way to easily be able to chat and talk, they have a nice UI. It's very easy to use. And it was a yeah, a kind of different way to "Slack," for example, which "Slack" is built up on threads, whereas "Discord" is built up, basically you have different channels and it's just a kind of big free for all where you can, you know, you can @ people and you can tag people and stuff like that. But it's all just one long thread in each channel so you can have lots of different channels for different topics and stuff. And it's a different way of communicating. And I use "Discord" a lot for my web development. That's the main use I have for it. So I don't have it on my phone or anything because otherwise I would just get distracted by all the pings basically. And I use it for talking to other web developers, either talking in private message or in a big server. And I'm in a couple of different ones. So I'm in one for "Oxygen," one for "Divi," I'm in one for like blogging and things like that, and I'm in a couple of others which are software related, so little plug-ins and add-ons that I've got as well, I'm in one of them. And they're really useful because it's quick and easy to chat. I don't have to have, we have our own standalone app, which you can download for, you know, all different platforms, so Windows, Apple and things like that. And yeah, I find it really useful because a lot of people don't like Facebook, which is one of the reasons why the "Oxygen Discord" was created, was because people don't like Facebook, they don't have a Facebook account, and that's the only reason they had a Facebook account, or they just don't like the way that Facebook organises the groups, the kind of posts inside of the groups. And so the way, you know, I guess the search functionality is a lot better in "Discord" than it is in Facebook. And so they've got both of these now, which I use on a regular basis.

[00:04:35.830] - Gordon
So one of the one of the advantages with "Discord" over "Slack," for example, is the channels, isn't it?

[00:04:42.430] - Taylor
Yes.

[00:04:42.910] - Gordon
So you can have one sort of topic, if you like, and you can have lots of channels. So, for example, in the Oxygen one, can you give us an example of the channels?

[00:04:52.450] - Taylor
We've got one called 'chat,' 'news,' 'off topic,' 'hosting,' 'help,' 'web development,' 'SEO.' And then we've got like plug-in specific, so plug-ins that are built specifically for oxygen. We've got a separate channel for each plug-in, so if you want to talk about a certain plug-in, for example, you can go there and we all know that's what you're talking about. As well as other plug-ins that are well known, so "advanced custom fields," which is another plug-in that I use. But they also have something called 'voice chat' and 'screen chat.' So, this kind of allows you, brings the power of, you know, Zoom, for example, inside of kind of "Slack". I don't know if "Slack" offers this type of video call screen sharing option, but you can basically you can do a voice call, you can do a video call, and you can also share your screen. If you, say you want to help with a problem, you can share your screen and you can do it that way.

[00:05:47.670] - Gordon
So it's not using Zoom. It's...

[00:05:53.100] - Taylor
It's using that functionality...

[00:05:53.880] - Gordon
Yeah.

[00:05:54.000] - Taylor
Where it's kind of bringing "Slack" and "Zoom" together so you can...

[00:05:57.010] - Gordon
So, the nice thing about the channels though, is you're splitting the conversations and discussions between different topics within the main topic, which means that if you are not interested in 'off topic,' for example, which is, you know, just general chat, I would guess.

[00:06:15.750] - Taylor
Yeah.

[00:06:16.260] - Gordon
You don't have to listen to it.

[00:06:19.650] - Taylor
So you can basically change what channels you get notifications to or, so on a lot of servers that I'm in, there's always a channel where everyone that joins will get a notification saying "this person has joined." And I always just mute that chat because it means that I don't get pinged every time someone joins because I don't care if people join. You know, if people join then I'll see them in the messages.

[00:06:40.920] - Gordon
Well, it matters if you're a moderator.

[00:06:42.410] - Taylor
Yeah.

[00:06:42.870] - Gordon
But not if you're just a general user.

[00:06:44.970] - Taylor
Exactly.

[00:06:45.660] - Gordon
And the nice thing about the discord, I mean, "Discord Servers" is what they call it. I don't know if they're just centrally kept or if you can create your own private server.

[00:06:57.240] - Taylor
So, you can create as many servers as you want, and you can even make them public or private.

[00:07:02.370] - Gordon
So a channel is called a server?

[00:07:03.990] - Taylor
No. So you've got servers which are an overarching type of whatever you want the topic to be. So "Divi," "Discor...", "Oxygen."

[00:07:13.890] - Gordon
Yeah. So it's the main topic.

[00:07:15.310] - Taylor
But then you've got channels within the server which are sub-channels basically.

[00:07:20.820] - Gordon
And are all these servers, I mean the word server to me means different machines in different parts of the world, but...

[00:07:26.670] - Taylor
They're all stored on a "Discord" server. And all of the images you upload, for example, are uploaded to their server. So you can actually if you upload an image, you can copy the URL inside of that and then you can paste it into another server or another private message, for example, and pull that image in because it's already on their server it means you don't upload it twice. And obviously it gives it a random character for URL for the image, basically.

[00:07:53.430] - Gordon
And you also have pretty much any topic you can think of that's covered, right?

[00:07:57.730] - Taylor
Yeah. And if you wanted to create your own one with just your friends, you can do that as well, which, you know, you can just share you know.

[00:08:03.460] - Gordon
We've done that, haven't we? We played Minecraft at one point and we had some friends and we had a "Discord server." And it meant that when we were playing Minecraft on our computers, we could also have the "Discord" server open with voice chat so we could talk to each other at the same time.

[00:08:21.710] - Taylor
Yeah, exactly.

[00:08:22.350] - Gordon
Which makes the whole experience a lot more fun.

[00:08:24.960] - Taylor
Yeah, exactly. And they have a lot of integrations as well. So you can connect Spotify. Because it was originally a gaming platform, you can connect your "steam" account, for example. So if you're playing a video game like "World of Warcraft," it will say "Taylor playing World of Warcraft" or "Taylor listening to Spotify" or whatever. And it basically, you know, people can see what you're doing to say they want to jump onto a game with you, they can send you a message saying, "hey, can I join?" And then, you know, you get invited to their server or you just go into a private message call with them, and you can play with them. And it's a nice way to kind of tell people what you're up to, what you're doing, and you can find people that have the same interests as well.

[00:09:05.040] - Gordon
So the big question, what does all this cost?

[00:09:08.760] - Taylor
It's all free. So if you run a server, you have, you can boost your server and you can pay and you unlock things. But the whole core of it, if you're not a server owner or moderator, or you don't need the extra capabilities so of example, if you boost your server, you get you unlock emojis, custom emojis, you can improve the audio quality and also the video quality that you can stream at to your friends and things like that. But at the core, it's free.

[00:09:42.480] - Gordon
So all nice to have upgrades, but not necessary to be able to use the full functionality.

[00:09:48.540] - Taylor
And if you're not the one that's, you know, controlling the server, then it's free to you because you don't have to worry about it because everything else is done for you and moderated and

[00:09:55.770] - Gordon
You just become part of the community.

[00:09:57.090] - Taylor
Yeah.

[00:09:57.990] - Gordon
It's really good. So we'll put a link to the "Discord" service in the notes and you can see those on our new website.

[00:10:06.570] - Taylor
Yes.

[00:10:07.080] - Gordon
Yeah. Talking of new websites, bit of a segway in there, did you see what I did there?

[00:10:13.430] - Taylor
I did yes.

[00:10:13.430] - Gordon
So I've been talking about my "Pip Kennedy" website for a while now.

[00:10:21.860] - Taylor
Started back in February; February, March time we started it.

[00:10:26.360] - Gordon
Well, February/March we started discussing it, of 2020.

[00:10:30.860] - Taylor
Yeah.

[00:10:31.220] - Gordon
We started discussing it. In fact, in the end of December, we were also discussing it. We went on a trip.

[00:10:37.520] - Taylor
Yeah.

[00:10:37.850] - Gordon
And we were discussing it then. So it's been percolating and planned in very slow chunks, basically.

[00:10:47.030] - Taylor
Yes.

[00:10:48.800] - Gordon
And for those who haven't caught up with this, Pip Kennedy is my stage name and it's the name I use when I perform magic for adults. And it's a website that has always been secondary to my other magic website, which is for performing at children's parties. I always spent a lot of time and effort and money in some cases, on that website. And Pip Kennedy was always like the second, underachieving brother, if you like. And the reason it underachieved is because I never really put any time and effort into the website.

[00:11:28.550] - Taylor
And thus you didn't get anything back. So you didn't think there was any point putting money and time into it.

[00:11:33.690] - Gordon
Well, that's right. Because I don't spend any money currently on advertising for magic. Mainly because of the pandemic, but also, I get a lot of word of mouth shows that come through and when those sort of dry up, then I look at my marketing and, you know, turn the advertising back on again. But I haven't needed to do that for quite some time. And people make a lot of first impressions based on your website, whether that's right or wrong, because.

[00:12:05.660] - Taylor
And your branding as well.

[00:12:06.980] - Gordon
Yeah, I mean, somebody who's a really good magician might have a rubbish website and vice versa.

[00:12:12.840] - Taylor
Yeah.

[00:12:13.250] - Gordon
So it's not always a good rule of thumb to go by.

[00:12:18.410] - Taylor
But it will give you the best opportunity, if you have got a good one.

[00:12:21.920] - Gordon
So having a new "Pip Kennedy" website was something I've been wanting to do for a long time. And when we got to lockdown, I thought, well...

[00:12:29.180] - Taylor
I've said it to you for ages haven't I?

[00:12:30.440] - Gordon
Yeah, yeah, Taylor didn't like it. And I was, I mean, it's a very old website, the original one, and it's before sort of WordPress came and became really popular. So it's, it had very, had a lot of limitations technology wise as to what was possible at the time. And things have changed a lot. And so one of my goals for achieving during lockdown. And originally it was the first lockdown, which I failed at, was to redo this website completely with all the ideas that we'd discussed. And Taylor decided that it would be a good way to introduce me to "Oxygen" as the builder for it. I think he's regretting...

[00:13:20.900] - Taylor
No...

[00:13:21.650] - Gordon
...That choice now based on how much time and effort I've had to

[00:13:24.800] - Taylor
No, I enjoy it, I enjoy helping you. Obviously, I've learnt a lot from helping you.

[00:13:29.540] - Gordon
He says that.

[00:13:30.230] - Taylor
But it's just sometimes when, you know me doing it doesn't benefit you.

[00:13:34.223] - Gordon
No, I understand.

[00:13:36.170] - Taylor
That's what I kind of...

[00:13:37.670] - Gordon
And the problem I had all the way through the process is, because it's a new builder for me, unlike other services and software that I use a lot, I know what to do and I know what to go and search for, to figure out what I'm supposed to be doing or if I've forgotten how to do something, I have enough knowledge to be able to search for the answer.

[00:14:00.860] - Taylor
Yeah.

[00:14:01.550] - Gordon
Whereas with this new builder, it's new. It's, it's the sort of thing I had no idea about when I started. And I have a much better understanding, although there are still things that I don't quite understand. And so I've had to be going to Taylor and saying, "Taylor this isn't doing what I want it to do and this is broken and..."

[00:14:20.300] - Taylor
Which I didn't mind, but at the same time, I wanted...

[00:14:23.210] - Gordon
To get on with his own stuff.

[00:14:24.560] - Taylor
But I wanted you to learn and know why I did it, how I'd done it, rather than, because I could have just done it for you. But that wouldn't...

[00:14:30.800]
That wouldn't have helped me. No, you're right. I wouldn't have learnt.

[00:14:32.700] - Taylor
There was quite a few times where you did, were like, "Taylor, can you just do it for me." I was thinking, well, I can, but.

[00:14:39.680] - Gordon
Well, sometimes there were, I mean, it's a very code-y based builder.

[00:14:43.910] - Taylor
If you want it to be. So it doesn't have to be, but if you want to do advanced stuff, with anything.

[00:14:48.380] - Gordon
It allows you to do it.

[00:14:49.420] - Taylor
Yeah, it allows you to do it easier.

[00:14:50.720] - Gordon
And the coding part of it is something I was struggling with. However, after saying all that, we are nearly a year between when first lockdown started and now. And I am very pleased to announce that my website: pipkennedy.co.uk is now live. So if you didn't see it before, too late, you can't compare it anymore. But it's now up, it's now live. It's been a couple of weeks, really, of putting projects we've been working on for a while live.

[00:15:24.900] - Taylor
Yeah definitely.

[00:15:24.900] - Gordon
And it's really satisfying when you hit the button to say, well it's not quite as simple as that. But when you put a website that you've been working on, live, it's really satisfying to then be able to tell people and say, "the website's up go and have a look." And it's really demoralising when people come back and go "found a typo" or "this doesn't work on this" or "this doesn't work on this." But it's part of the process because unless you have all of these devices and all these different screen resolutions and everything that goes with it, there's no way you can check a website on all of them to see if it does what it's supposed to do. I mean, there are hundreds of different phone variants. There's 100 different Android phones, which, you know, hundreds of different Android phones, and I don't have all those variations to be able to test it. So for sort of a few days after I launched it, I had a few niggles and things that came back. Plus there's things I could only do when I put it live. Like, for example, I set up a terms and conditions and a privacy policy page. Well, you can only really do the privacy policy once the site is live, because you're going to be referring to things like 'cookies' that you're using and you have to put in there what information you are collecting, what you're doing with that information. And until you've settled on the technology and the site's pretty much set in stone, you can't really add that sort of information in. So once the site sort of was ready to launch, just before I launched it, I then added these things in. I also added in a system to compress images so that from now on, if I upload a new image it will compress it and it will put it on a content delivery system or network "CDN" so that it will serve the pages quickly, or serve the images quickly. And then there was things like adding on preloading plug-ins, so you can preload other pages so that when a user goes to another page it'll load pretty much instantly because it's been loading in idle time. And again, that's the sort of thing you don't want on when you're developing a site, it's the sort of thing that needs to go on once it's live. So there were these things that I needed to do and they're all done. There is still a couple of little tweaks that I need to do. Some people are saying that the menu isn't working properly on their mobile device, and I'm not entirely sure why that is at the moment, but that's something that I'm going to be looking into. But the site is live and it's really interesting listening to people's comments on the site. So...

[00:18:11.460] - Taylor
Different perspectives as well.

[00:18:13.020] - Gordon
Yeah. So what I posted, I posted on Facebook to my friends, in fact, that the site was live and I got some people giving me feedback instantly going, "this is great," "love it," "this is not working," "that's not working." And I had a comment from someone who I highly respect, who is an entertainer herself. And she posted that she didn't think it had enough 'pizzazz' as an entertainer. And I thought, it got me thinking, have I sort of missed my target market? Have I made it too professional? She said, actually in part of her comment, "it's a very professional website, but when I asked my 16 year old if they knew what this site was about, they came back with a politician or an estate agent," which is obviously not the job that I do. And it concerned me for a long time, and I sort of mulled it over and let it percolate and try and come up with a...

[00:19:18.900] - Taylor
But is a 16 year old your target market, that's the other thing?

[00:19:21.150] - Gordon
It's not. No, it's not. And that is part of the reason that I've left it as it is for the time being, because someone else that I highly respect, a very good friend of mine called Emma came back and she posted, "it's a great site. It targets your target audience perfectly because it's very professional and very corporate." And that is the sort of audience that I'm after. They're the people who work in companies or the people who are booking adult entertainment and when I say 'adult.' I don't mean, you know, blue or x-rated, I mean, just the audience is comprised only of adults.

[00:20:00.750] - Taylor
Yeah. Weddings and table magic and...

[00:20:03.120] - Gordon
Yeah. Fortieth birthdays and dinner parties and that sort of thing. Beer festivals. You know, all of these little niches that...

[00:20:13.040] - Taylor
Don't come under at children.

[00:20:14.630] - Gordon
No, that don't have just children as the main audience. There may be children at some of these events, but that is not the focus for this site or for that brand. "Pip Kennedy" is solely for adult performances.

[00:20:27.780] - Taylor
It is also interesting when I shared it with my community on "Discord" and the people...

[00:20:33.290] - Gordon
So they were looking at it from the technical point of view, from the Oxygen side, which is great.

[00:20:37.310] - Taylor
So I got a completely different response in terms of what they thought. A lot of them said, you know, "I love the design," "I think it's great." But, you know, some people said, you know, "maybe you could do this instead" or "I would do this instead" and giving ideas of actually building and changing it rather than giving it from a 'does it meet your...'

[00:20:56.240] - Gordon
Yeah.

[00:20:56.540] - Taylor
'Target audience.' Is it, does it look nice basically?

[00:20:59.030] - Gordon
Yeah. So as well as telling you that the website is now live and inviting you to go and view it, and you know, if you have any comments, please let me know. I'm really pleased to hear them. I think probably the biggest takeaway here for you, for the audience is when you've finished a big project, whether it be a website or any other project, go and get feedback from people, but...

[00:21:25.850] - Taylor
Take it with a grain of salt.

[00:21:26.990] - Gordon
Yeah, be very careful as to how you react to that feedback, because you want to make sure that you're getting feedback from the people that you trust in the realm that your project is for.

[00:21:41.090] - Taylor
Giving you honest feedback.

[00:21:42.320] - Gordon
Yeah.

[00:21:43.490] - Taylor
As well as people that are your target audience. So a lot of the time I come to you and say, "what do you think?" And me and you sometimes have different ideas of agreements on what we think looks good, what, how we want stuff to go. Same with the Pip Kennedy and the This Week With, we had a lot of disagreements of how...

[00:22:02.810] - Gordon
Discussions.

[00:22:03.470] - Taylor
Yeah. Not not disagreements.

[00:22:04.880] - Gordon
They're not disagreements. They're different ideas that are coming in.

[00:22:08.900] - Taylor
And different ways we can do things. And I sometimes I go, "oh, you know, you didn't like it at all because a lot of the stuff was contradictory to what I said." But I think that it's good because I see it from another point of view of, you know, what I could do. But I take it with a grain of salt, as, you know, the idea's there if I if I want to use that, I can. If not, it's just nice to have a bit of feedback on what you think. And sometimes I do end up changing it slightly, not always to what, 100% what you said.

[00:22:38.850] - Gordon
Well, that's the thing with feedback. You've got to decide what you're going to do with that feedback once you get it. And that really depends on who the person is giving it, and how much you respect their opinion, whether they are your target audience. So, you know, if I went to, you know, the lady next door and said to her, "what do you think of this website?" Well.

[00:22:59.200] - Taylor
She'll go "yeah, it looks great."

[00:23:00.500] - Gordon
Yeah.

[00:23:00.830] - Taylor
Just 'cos she'll want to be nice.

[00:23:01.820] - Gordon
Yeah.

[00:23:02.180] - Taylor
But she's not...

[00:23:02.750] - Gordon
But she may not actually mean that, she's not my target audience.

[00:23:06.320] - Taylor
She doesn't know what you're trying to get out of it.

[00:23:08.700] - Gordon
Yeah. So, yeah. Get feedback, but just be careful what you do with it.

[00:23:13.580] - Taylor
From a variety of people just to see how people react to it.

[00:23:16.520] - Gordon
So for example, with Taylor's Oxygen community I was listening really carefully, because they were talking about the technical side of it, which for me on this project was my weak part. You know, the design is something I've been doing for a long time, so I was happy with the design and it was the building of it, the technical side that. So getting that feedback was really good. And I always, whenever I give feedback to people, I always try and explain my reasons why. So rather than "yeah, I don't like the look of it," which is not helpful, is it?

[00:23:50.600] - Taylor
Constructive feedback.

[00:23:51.740] - Gordon
Yeah, but someone says, "yeah, I don't like the look of it." That's not helpful.

[00:23:55.700] - Taylor
But constructive feedback to explain your reasoning.

[00:23:57.240] - Gordon
If you say, "I don't like the look of it because it gives the impression that this and this and this" and that is different to the target that I'm going for, then that makes a lot more sense.

[00:24:10.070] - Taylor
For those of you that are listening to this, my dad just did many hand movements and gestures that you won't be able to have seen, but they're there just I thought I'd explain it to you.

[00:24:19.010] - Gordon
And if we're picking up on things, I think you mean pinch of salt, not a grain of salt.

[00:24:24.030] - Taylor
Whatever.

[00:24:25.010] - Gordon
I think he's getting confused with grains of rice and grains of salt, pinches of salt. But yeah, it's really important to get this feedback. And the other part of that is to not be really precious about it, because if you look at something as being your baby, something for me I've been working on for over a year now, if someone comes back and gives me feedback and gives me good reasons why they're giving me that feedback, I've got to look at it and think, yeah, OK. Even though I've spent so long looking at it and designing it and I want to take a step back, look at it from someone else's point of view, and I may agree with them and make a big change. So again, if, in the end, I want the best product possible and testing is something that we've discussed in the past, "AB testing," and that is something I may need to do. It's not the right time for me at the moment because nobody is booking live shows. It's when we go back to being able to do that, that I'll get a real sense of how the website is working and if it's doing what I need it to do, which is bring in enquiries for me. And if it doesn't, then I can look at doing split testing and so forth. But you need to have traffic coming to the site to then convert into bookings in my case.

[00:25:52.710] - Taylor
And different streams.

[00:25:53.320] - Gordon
Which we don't have at the moment.

[00:25:54.540] - Taylor
And also different streams of ways that they're getting to your site, so through social media, whether from Facebook, whether they're from...

[00:26:01.320] - Gordon
So, the marketing.

[00:26:02.410] - Taylor
Email. And then, you can then figure out, OK, what's converting the best via which platform, but then also what button colours, what text is converting.

[00:26:12.210] - Gordon
And that requires you to make sure you have analytics on there. Otherwise it's going to be impossible to decipher what's working and what isn't. So, very excited about that. And that's it for me, I think. Have you got anything to add?

[00:26:28.290] - Taylor
No, that's everything for this week?

[00:26:29.760] - Gordon
Great! Well, slightly longer episode than normal. Thank you for staying with us. If you have enjoyed it, then as always, we can be found on Facebook and on YouTube. We go live at 1pm on a Friday every week.

[00:26:43.020] - Taylor
And you can also go to our brand new website: thisweekwith.co.uk and if you are sometimes strapped for time, you don't have, you know, this is about 20...

[00:26:54.430] - Gordon
Haven't got very long to...

[00:26:54.950] - Taylor
Yeah, then you can filter all of our episodes by kind of the length of the episode, the first one that will probably come up every single time is our Christmas one, because that was only a minute long. But then you can see others after that that you can see which which episodes are the shortest, and you can watch them.

[00:27:13.680] - Gordon
That's one of the advantages with the new search system we've got. So please use it. It's there for you to make your life easier.

[00:27:20.220] - Taylor
Yeah, that's everything.

[00:27:21.750] - Gordon
Thank you very much. And please tell your friends and we look forward to seeing you next week to join us again. My name is Gordon, I'm from Drayson Design.

[00:27:30.990] - Taylor
And I'm Taylor from The Creative Tinker.

[00:27:34.050] - Gordon
Bye bye

[00:27:34.500] - Taylor
Bye.

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Show Notes