[00:00:10.250] - Gordon
Hello.

[00:00:10.640] - Taylor
Hello.

[00:00:11.330] - Nim
Hi.

[00:00:12.710] - Gordon
My name's Gordon from Drayson Design.

[00:00:14.720] - Taylor
And I'm Taylor from The Creative Tinker.

[00:00:17.090] - Nim
And I'm Nim.

[00:00:19.040] - Gordon
And welcome to "This Week With Taylor and Gordon and Nim," a weekly podcast and vidcast where we talk about things that are affecting our businesses in the last seven days. So welcome back to everybody and most importantly, welcome to Nim. Hello, Nim.

[00:00:39.050] - Nim
Hi.

[00:00:39.050] - Gordon
So we mentioned a couple of weeks ago we were going to have a special guest and it didn't happen at that time, but we are very pleased and very happy to have Nim with us today. And you'll notice that Taylor is not with me in the same place. He's out and about again, so we've done it on Zoom because last time it sort of worked, it was not too bad. We've put a few things into place this time. Hopefully you'll be able to hear me better, and Taylor better, because of the headphones. So, you know, let us know in the comments if you can hear us ok. But, let's get straight into it. Taylor, would you like to introduce our special guest?

[00:01:22.280] - Taylor
Yes. So this is Nim, this is my girlfriend and she runs or she does digital art. I'll let you kind of introduce a bit more about that.

[00:01:32.360] - Nim
Yeah, so I just, I love drawing ever since I could even like find a pen and paper. And I recently just moved on to drawing on an iPad and yeah, I've been just cracking on with loads of little projects and stuff lately.

[00:01:48.680] - Taylor
That's great.

[00:01:48.720] - Gordon
So that's very exciting. Can I ask you, are you, is this what you want to do?

[00:01:53.540] - Nim
Yes, I want to just go into the creative industry, whether it's in graphic design and, like, creating artwork for companies.

[00:02:02.320] - Gordon
OK, and so have you sort of decided to go self-employed or are you going to go and look for a company that will employ you? What's your goal? What's your vision?

[00:02:16.180] - Nim
My vision is probably to go self-employed. But first, I think I want to start going into an agency just to get more experience and then learn from that and then take it into my own business.

[00:02:28.960] - Taylor
Similar to what I did then. You know, I started off in an agency doing websites. And then when I kind of had the experience, I then went and self-employed.

[00:02:39.190] - Nim
Yeah.

[00:02:41.050] - Gordon
Yeah. So it's very cool. So you get to be your own boss. Are you the sort of person that can sit down and work without getting distracted with things around you?

[00:02:51.070] - Nim
Yes. Yeah. All the time. Just see my own...

[00:02:55.300] - Gordon
Unless Taylor's there I guess.

[00:02:56.170] - Nim
Well yeah.

[00:02:56.170] - Gordon
You distract each other. That's not so good. So Nim, do you want to tell us a little bit about your sort of background and how you got into drawing and why you like it so much?

[00:03:12.760] - Nim
Ok, so I was born in Thailand and the education system there wasn't as good, I guess, when you were small because you're just taught the basics. And I moved here to England when I was six and I was exposed to like so many subjects and I just found that art was the best subject that I think I had.

[00:03:37.270] - Taylor
The one you enjoyed the most.

[00:03:37.740] - Nim
Yeah, the one I enjoyed. And I think it runs in the family as well, because my mum is really creative, so I could see that.

[00:03:46.810] - Taylor
And your sisters as well.

[00:03:47.920] - Nim
And my sisters, yeah.

[00:03:50.160] - Gordon
Do they draw or are they creative in other ways.

[00:03:52.870] - Nim
Yes, one of my sister, she likes drama, dance and she draws she likes to draw on paper. And my other sister, she, like me, she likes to draw and then convert it digitally on her phone.

[00:04:06.058] - Gordon
Ok.

[00:04:07.030] - Taylor
And then your mum does her, she creates kind of like outfits.

[00:04:11.290] - Nim
And yeah, my mum's a dressmaker.

[00:04:13.990] - Gordon
Ah. So all of you are sort of into design, really, you know, whether it's designing a dress or clothing or designing some sort of, you know, graphic design or image.

[00:04:28.360] - Nim
Yes.

[00:04:28.840] - Gordon
So, why illustration? Why drawing? What drew you to that?

[00:04:35.920] - Nim
I think it's a way to express what's in my head and it's a way that I can feel stress free, because I tend to stress a lot. And I find that doing art just takes my mind off.

[00:04:49.750] - Taylor
Yeah, you kind of like zone out and you kind of just, you're in your own world. Doesn't really matter what you're doing, put a bit of music on.

[00:04:55.090] - Nim
Put a bit of music on and just sink in.

[00:04:59.020] - Gordon
So I'm not a good draw-er at all. I'm rubbish at it. So you must have some sort of natural talent with that. And I'm guessing, based on the fact that the rest of your family have it as well, it looks like it's a family trait.

[00:05:13.210] - Nim
Yes.

[00:05:14.290] - Taylor
A lot of practise.

[00:05:15.610] - Nim
Yeah.

[00:05:17.110] - Gordon
Yeah, that is true. I mean, I say I'm no good, but I've not actually spent any time doing it because I've realized I wasn't very good at it, and so I moved on to things that I enjoyed more and I was better at. But if I had stuck at it, maybe I would be better because I would be practising. And that's sort of where you've gone. You've got to the point where you enjoy it, and so therefore you're going to continue doing it, and every time you do it, you're going to get better and better and better.

[00:05:43.390] - Taylor
Yeah, it was, it's like one of those things I was, we were talking about the other day is that you've got to have people that are very, very bad at it for the good people to look good you know. If everyone has the same skill then you wouldn't have...

[00:05:54.130] - Gordon
I'm one of the bad people here, I'm here to make you look good Nim.

[00:05:58.120] - Taylor
Taking one for the team. I, in my photography at college, I drew stick figures. And yeah, you laughed at them didn't you?

[00:06:07.360] - Nim
No, they were good.

[00:06:08.800] - Taylor
Well, you say that. Good for a person that draws stick men.

[00:06:11.950] - Gordon
They look like stick figures, which is, you know.

[00:06:14.440] - Taylor
That's what I was going for.

[00:06:15.580] - Gordon
Exactly. So you did exactly what you intended. So, so Nim there's lots of different types and styles of design and drawing. So what do you like, what's your style?

[00:06:28.930] - Nim
My favourite is realistic artwork, so I like doing realistic portraits or hyper realistic and...

[00:06:36.870] - Taylor
What's the difference between kind of realistic and hyper realistic?

[00:06:40.060] - Nim
Realistic is really realistic. So like really just all the detail and hyper realistic is, I guess, just... I don't know.

[00:06:52.120] - Taylor
Is it like an element of cartoon or something?

[00:06:53.590] - Nim
Yeah, it's a mixture of cartoon, but in a way that...

[00:06:57.190] - Taylor
There's still lots of detail.

[00:06:58.210] - Nim
Yes, lots of details that, it's just, it's perfect.

[00:07:01.000] - Taylor
Yeah.

[00:07:02.590] - Gordon
So it's still realistic, but it's not sort of what you would see if you looked at the person, there are sort of, it's stylized.

[00:07:10.150] - Nim
Yes.

[00:07:10.540] - Taylor
A bit like, you know, when you get caricatures where they're like obviously over, overly exaggerate your features, maybe a bit more colour with inside of it and things like that.

[00:07:20.720] - Gordon
OK, that's very cool. And this is obviously what you want to do, so because we have listeners who sort of run their own businesses and you are just starting out. What are your current challenges? What are you what are you struggling with at the moment, if anything?

[00:07:40.240] - Nim
I think it's just getting my artwork out there with the other people that's already currently, you know, having their own place in within the subject, so it's just getting myself out there more, I think.

[00:07:53.770] - Taylor
And then because of getting yourself out there, then clients start to come in and your reputation then goes up, and that's, it kind of all evolves from there really.

[00:08:03.370] - Gordon
And it's easier these days to get your art seen by people because you've got things like Instagram and you've got, you know, Pinterest and and you've actually got sort of places that are dedicated to go and look at people's, you know, pictures or artwork. So, you know, it's a lot easier as a single person to do that. Whereas in the past, you used to have to sort of get, you know, a gallery and get people to come actually into the gallery to see what you've done. So I guess that's slightly easier now. But, you also have a lot more competition because everyone else is doing exactly the same. So you need to find a way to make yourself stand out. So I guess we've got all the way through to this point now, we haven't even seen any of your fantastic art. So do you have anything you can show us?

[00:08:54.370] - Nim
Yeah, I have some on my iPad.

[00:08:59.170] - Gordon
OK, so is this, this is a world exclusive. Has anyone seen this art that you're about to show us?

[00:09:05.740] - Nim
So this is one I've done lately, it's of a, like a Viking.

[00:09:14.020] - Gordon
Wow. OK, that and this is hyper realistic, is it?

[00:09:17.880] - Nim
Yes.

[00:09:19.450] - Gordon
OK, that's very nice.

[00:09:22.690] - Nim
And then I've done more of an illustrated artwork as well. Just a little café that I've made.

[00:09:32.200] - Gordon
And is that, does that exist or is that something you've created out of your mind?

[00:09:36.880] - Nim
Yes, so I've looked at a reference of a café and I just made my own colours.

[00:09:40.930] - Taylor
Did you bring multiple images and go , "oh I like that bit from this café. I like that bit from this café," and kind of manipulate it and put it into one kind of, your own café.

[00:09:50.290] - Taylor
I was inspired by clustered looks of buildings in like Japan. And so I just brought everything in there.

[00:09:59.530] - Gordon
Which is really relevant at the moment because that's where, you know, we're seeing lots of images from Japan at the moment, aren't we.

[00:10:06.820] - Taylor
'Cos of The Olympics.

[00:10:08.080] - Gordon
With the Olympics being in Tokyo. So, so yeah, it's topical art as well. Look at that, see.

[00:10:15.710] - Taylor
So

[00:10:16.070] - Gordon
So. Yeah, go on Taylor.

[00:10:18.640] - Taylor
So would, if you could have a, anything you like, enjoy doing the most, so obviously hyper realistic about anything, you know, do you prefer doing portraits or, you know, for specific types of people? So would it be, you know, if you had your ideal client, what would they look like? What would they be?

[00:10:35.290] - Nim
I definitely like the idea of maybe a client coming in, they've got a really old photo of one of their family member, and they just want to recreate that photo in an artwork.

[00:10:46.690] - Taylor
So like restoration.

[00:10:48.640] - Nim
Yeah, which can just be printed off and hung on the wall and kept.

[00:10:51.840] - Taylor
Yeah.

[00:10:52.150] - Nim
'Cos, you never know what happens if you save like a photo on your phone. You may, you know, go missing some day and...

[00:10:58.330] - Taylor
Maybe quite nice for, you know, people that want to give gifts for, you know, for example, weddings.

[00:11:03.250] - Nim
Yeah.

[00:11:03.610] - Taylor
You know, someone saying, you know, "can you draw the bride and groom?" And, you know, if they want it, they can not just be like in a wedding dress whatever, but it could be something completely different of what they enjoy. So say that, you know, the man, you know, likes Jurassic Park and the woman likes something else, you can like merge them together and have a very, very personal and unique photo that, you know, takes in both the things they love, that would be quite a nice idea.

[00:11:28.870] - Nim
It's just capturing people's best moments in their timeline.

[00:11:33.430] - Taylor
Or creating their own future, I guess. You know, if you create someone as a superhero.

[00:11:39.730] - Nim
Yeah.

[00:11:40.210] - Taylor
Then yeah.

[00:11:43.240] - Gordon
Ok, that sounds really cool. And how long would something like that take? I mean, for example, the Viking you did, how long did that take to get to where it is now?

[00:11:54.250] - Nim
It took over I think four days, just because I had other things to do. But if I would be able to just sit there and draw, then probably about two days.

[00:12:06.850] - Taylor
Is that so straight like 48 hours or is that like 8 hours a day or?

[00:12:11.910] - Nim
Probably a maximum of 10 hours a day.

[00:12:14.220] - Taylor
OK.

[00:12:14.770] - Gordon
OK, so it's about 20 hours work. OK, OK, that's I mean, I understand completely why it takes that length of time, but it's, you know, it's quite a long time if someone's paying for you to do that on an hourly basis. So how are you going to be looking at charging people? Are you going to do it sort of on a project basis, or are you going to do it on a, you know, however long it takes me basis?

[00:12:46.810] - Nim
I think it's by how long it takes and what they want within the picture, so if they want to add some stuff or...

[00:12:55.210] - Taylor
So you'd have like, you could have different packages and essentially, you know, you could have like a one person or like one small person; two people in it; and then if it's like a bigger, a larger format, then...

[00:13:07.630] - Gordon
I'm a small person.

[00:13:08.590] - Taylor
You could, you know, yeah.

[00:13:10.640] - Nim
Yeah.

[00:13:12.640] - Taylor
Yeah that sounds good.

[00:13:14.680] - Gordon
OK, so different packages. So basically it sounds like it's more like a bespoke type arrangement where people come to you and they say, "look, this is what I want." And by the sounds of it, if I were you, I would probably look at that and say, "right, based on my experience, how long do I think that's going to take?" And then give them a price upfront, because I think you'll find that if you say to people, "yeah, I'll do it, and I won't be able to tell you how much it will be until it's finished," is going to be a little bit onerous for people, they're, you don't want people to think, "well, you know, I've got a," as we used to say in the old days, "a blank cheque book." That's not a saying anymore because no one uses cheques. But you know, it's basically saying, you know, "I'm leaving it completely open and you can write in whatever you want." I think you'll find that you'll get more people commissioning you if you're able to look at what their requirements are and give them a price and say, "right, it's going to cost this much." And then if they come back and they say, "can you add this? Can you do that? Can you do this?" Then you can, you know, obviously change your price based on their changes, you know, whether it be additions or changes that they want to make. But I think probably that's the way you need to look at it. Everything alright?

[00:14:45.580] - Taylor
Yeah, we were losing power so we just plugged it in.

[00:14:50.440] - Gordon
Oh, the joys of being live, eh? So, yes, just to summarize what I was saying there, I think you're probably best looking at sort of a per commission price. So looking at what people want and giving them an actual price before you even start, because then...

[00:15:11.200] - Taylor
And also price it based on the value that you bring, not just how long it takes as well, because, yes, you know, it may take you this long, but that's because you've got lots of experience in the past, you know. So what might have taken you previously when, a couple years ago, 25 hours, you can now do in 20 hours because of the experience you have, the knowledge and things like that. So it's also value is very important to take into consideration because you have a skill that other people can't just replicate, you know, without having that past, previous knowledge.

[00:15:46.660] - Gordon
Plus you're going to hope that people like your style and therefore come to you rather than going to another illustrator or another graphic designer. And they like what you do and therefore that's why they're coming to you. And that's the value that you also bring. That's your unique selling proposition, is the point that people come to you for your style.

[00:16:07.720] - Nim
Yeah.

[00:16:09.580] - Gordon
Which is great, you know, once you get to that point, that's going to be really good. So I had a question in my mind.

[00:16:18.580] - Taylor
I've got one. Where can people find you? Where would they, where can they go to see, if they wanted to see your artwork or if they wanted to get in contact with you?

[00:16:27.370] - Nim
Um, most of my artwork is posted on my Instagram, which is 'nimbgraphics.' And I also got a page on Facebook with all my artwork on there as well. So, you know...

[00:16:42.860] - Taylor
Well we'll put the links.

[00:16:43.510] - Gordon
Go follow, like, subscribe to Nim, we'll make sure we put those details in the show notes so that people can find them very easily. I have one last question, because we talk a lot of technology on this channel, what are you using to draw with? What software? What hardware are you using?

[00:17:08.410] - Taylor
Equipment.

[00:17:09.490] - Nim
Um, I've got the iPad and I use a programme called, an app, which is 'Procreate.' It's a paid app which is on the App Store. And then I also bought a apple pencil.

[00:17:25.520] - Gordon
OK, so you're drawing using your iPad. That is your...

[00:17:31.450] - Taylor
There you go.

[00:17:31.450] - Gordon
That's a nicely printed stand there Taylor.

[00:17:33.670] - Taylor
Yeah. 3D printed that was. Not the pencil bit, but the holder.

[00:17:39.820] - Gordon
Our 3D printer sitting behind us, still not working currently, it's still needing tweaks, but it was working 'til I started messing with it. Anyway, so yes, so you're using the iPad primarily as your drawing platform.

[00:17:56.220] - Nim
Yes.

[00:17:56.865] - Gordon
Ok, that's cool.

[00:17:57.270] - Taylor
And you have a software on, you know, do you import it to your computer to do anything?

[00:18:02.550] - Nim
I do have Adobe Illustrator, which I sometimes use just to clear up the images a bit and add a bit more texture that I can't really get on the Procreate.

[00:18:14.460] - Gordon
And really technical question. Does Photoshop allow you to bring in layers from Procreate? Does Procreate even have layers?

[00:18:22.230] - Nim
Yes. So you can just, you could export the file, which has got the whole layers in it, and then...

[00:18:31.680] - Gordon
Yep.

[00:18:31.680] - Nim
Makes it easier to edit on there.

[00:18:34.290] - Gordon
So basically Procreate's using Photoshop layers, I would guess, or a PSD type format.

[00:18:40.440] - Nim
Yes.

[00:18:41.130] - Gordon
So that you could bring it into Photoshop and you can continue from where you were. So have you considered using the computer, with a tablet or even, you know, maybe when you, when you're more established, getting like a screen that you can draw directly on?

[00:18:59.010] - Taylor
You can use sidecar so you can connect up your iPad to your laptop and then use the iPad.

[00:19:03.930] - Gordon
That's true. That's true. Have you considered doing that or are you more comfortable in Procreate on the iPad?

[00:19:10.980] - Nim
I think I would try it, but I'm more comfortable on the iPad.

[00:19:14.310] - Taylor
I think the one advantage of using your iPad and drawing on it, but then connecting it to your laptop is you have a lot more power.

[00:19:21.750] - Nim
Yeah.

[00:19:21.750] - Taylor
Because I know that you, because of the high resolution, you know, you do it in ridiculously large sizes. So they're very, very high quality. But the limit is you can only have a certain number of layers. And because of that, you don't have to create multiple canvases, you create it, then you export that and put it into a new canvas to then create more layers, which can be you know, it can cause issues sometimes because if a client comes back to you and goes, "hey, can you change this colour?" But you've already flattened the image you can't get that, you can't get that layer back.

[00:19:56.760] - Nim
Yeah.

[00:19:56.760] - Taylor
So maybe you know, looking at, if there's a way you can use the iPad with the laptops, so the laptop's, the one powering, you know, and do the heavy lifting, and you don't have that limit on, you know, how many layers you can have.

[00:20:08.310] - Nim
Yeah, I'll look into that.

[00:20:11.340] - Gordon
It'll be interesting in years to come when hopefully you have a business that's successful, doing what you love doing and you can come back and go, "oh my goodness, I can't believe I was just using my iPad and flattening images to get more layers." Well Nim, thank you so much for joining us. It's been lovely having you here.

[00:20:36.150] - Nim
Thank you.

[00:20:36.150] - Gordon
Do you want to, for those who are listening, because we have this as a podcast as well. Do you want to give your Instagram and Facebook links out again just so that people can find you?

[00:20:47.460] - Nim
Yeah, sure. So my Instagram is 'nimbgraphics' and my Facebook is also the same nimbgraphics.

[00:20:55.740] - Gordon
Fantastic.

[00:20:55.740] - Nim
So it's easy to...

[00:20:57.690] - Taylor
Great.

[00:20:58.590] - Nim
Search.

[00:20:59.820] - Gordon
Well, we both wish you all the best with your business and hopefully we'll have you back again in the future, and you can tell us, you know, how you've been getting on. Yeah, that'd be great. So thank you very much for joining us. If you have enjoyed this, or you think someone else might enjoy it, then please, like, share and subscribe.

[00:21:22.740] - Taylor
You can also go to our website: thisweekwith.co.uk, where you can find all of our past episodes and all of our search terms.

[00:21:30.960] - Gordon
I realize why Taylor was waiting then, because I should have said we can be found on Facebook and on YouTube and on your favourite podcast platform as well. So thank you very much for joining us. We'll see you next week at 1pm on Friday. Until then, my name's Gordon, I'm from Drayson Design.

[00:21:49.350] - Taylor
I'm Taylor from The Creative Tinker.

[00:21:51.480] - Nim
And I'm Nim.

[00:21:53.990] - Gordon
Bye bye everyone.

[00:21:54.769] - Taylor
Bye.

[00:21:54.923] - Nim
Bye

[00:21:54.940] - Gordon
Bye bye.

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