[00:00:10.570] - Gordon
Hello.

[00:00:11.060] - Taylor
Hello.

[00:00:11.771] - Jonathan
Hello.

[00:00:12.230] - Gordon
My name's Gordon from Drayson Design.

[00:00:14.250] - Taylor
And I'm Taylor from The Creative Tinker.

[00:00:16.570] - Jonathan
I'm Jonathan Jernigan from Apex Web Solutions.

[00:00:19.680] - Gordon
And welcome to "This Week with Taylor and Gordon" and Jonathan, a weekly podcast and vidcast where we talk about things that have affected our businesses over the last seven days. And you may have noticed it looks slightly different today. That's because we are recording this early on a Wednesday because these two are off to WordCamp and they won't be here for Friday. So that's why we're here early. We may get a chance to speak about that in a minute. Before we do, we ought to introduce and welcome our fantastic guest who's come all the way from America just to be on This Week With.

[00:00:59.740] - Taylor
Yeah.

[00:00:59.740] - Gordon
Which is amazing. Thank you so much for making that journey. So do you want to introduce yourself and tell our viewers who you are?

[00:01:08.240] - Jonathan
Sure. So my name is Jonathan Jernigan. I run a business in the US called Apex Web Solutions. We specialize only in Oxygen builder for WordPress. We don't do anything else. So it's a sort of niche we fell into inadvertently through YouTube. So you may be familiar with YouTube channel by the name of Permaslug, where I create tutorial videos on Oxygen, and the business has really shifted to that. So that is the bulk of what we do. And that's how I met Taylor, through the power of the internet. We connected in the Oxygen community, on Facebook and Discord, and I think it's been probably two years now. And here we are in person.

[00:01:52.200] - Taylor
Yeah.

[00:01:52.620] - Gordon
First time meeting in person as well.

[00:01:54.790] - Jonathan
Yeah.

[00:01:55.340] - Gordon
Many many times on Zoom and on the internet, but first time in person. So do you want to say anything about Jonathan?

[00:02:03.410] - Taylor
Yeah, I can't remember what we were talking about, but I think I messaged him of one of probably 300 messages that he gets every single day.

[00:02:13.500] - Gordon
From you?

[00:02:14.220] - Taylor
No, from other people as well. And yeah, we just started chatting. I think we were talking about something and I said, "I can help." And we kind of just went from there. We started coming up with loads of cool ideas on things that we could build and write tutorials on and things. I think I gave you a couple of code solutions for tutorials and yeah, kind of just went from there and then became really good friends. And yeah, basically.

[00:02:38.950] - Jonathan
Here we are.

[00:02:39.780] - Gordon
So we should explain, for those who are completely unaware of what Oxygen is. If you've been watching this channel long enough, you'll know that Taylor is a big advocate of Oxygen. It's a builder for WordPress, and it allows you to build websites extremely efficiently and allow them to run very fast. That's one of the main benefits of it. And Jonathan here, or Permaslug... I can't get used to calling you Jonathan. I know you as Permaslug, which is so weird. Is a bit of a celebrity in the Oxygen world. And we are incredibly lucky that he is with us on this episode today. So thank you so much for joining us.

[00:03:18.000] - Jonathan
It's fantastic to be on this couch with you.

[00:03:21.290] - Gordon
You have seen it on the screen.

[00:03:24.460] - Taylor
Sofa.

[00:03:25.103] - Gordon
Sofa, yes.

[00:03:25.613] - Jonathan
Sofa, I see.

[00:03:25.670] - Gordon
We will translate for any viewers who don't understand some of the language that comes out of Jonathan's mouth, but we will try our best to make sure everyone understands.

[00:03:35.950] - Jonathan
I've made a few language missteps since I've been here.

[00:03:39.600] - Gordon
Well, I mean, this is your first time in Europe, right?

[00:03:42.540] - Jonathan
At all. Yeah.

[00:03:43.420] - Gordon
So you've been here what? A couple of days now.

[00:03:45.690] - Jonathan
Yes.

[00:03:47.030] - Gordon
How has it been for you? How have you found it?

[00:03:49.380] - Jonathan
Good. The UK in general feels familiar and yet, you know, different and enjoyable to explore. A new culture, new people. It's interesting I said this to you both already, but having seen these places that we've been in now the last couple of days, hundreds of times on the internet, there is no comparison for seeing it in person as to the images that you see online. And I've said this again to both of the gents here that the thing that struck me most was Big Ben. Like how ornate it is and just beautiful and big. Obviously. Big makes sense. But it's been very very good. Yeah. Really enjoyable experience and still have full day today and tomorrow to go.

[00:04:38.640] - Gordon
And we're quite lucky that it didn't get blown up by Guy Fawkes. Otherwise you wouldn't have seen how ornate and lovely it was. It would probably be a block of flats by now. But, yeah, it's lovely to have you here. You've experienced all sorts of weathers so far.

[00:04:54.240] - Jonathan
We were rained on, I think five times yesterday in the space of about 5 hours. So that was brilliant.

[00:04:58.880] - Gordon
Welcome to the UK.

[00:04:59.830] - Taylor
Sun about five times as well.

[00:05:01.890] - Jonathan
Yes, absolutely.

[00:05:03.600] - Gordon
And listening to you talk about all the places in London, I think the UK Tourist Board will be in touch with you soon about encouraging people to come over.

[00:05:12.540] - Jonathan
They can gladly sponsor a video for sure.

[00:05:15.290] - Gordon
So do you two want to tell our viewers what it is that you are sort of, apart from visiting us, what you are actually over in Europe for.

[00:05:24.030] - Jonathan
Sure. Why don't you start, Taylor?

[00:05:25.570] - Taylor
So yeah, so we are going to WordCamp Europe 2022. So WordCamp is a WordPress conference where people from around the world who use WordPress, which is the open source platform, go and have sessions and talks, meeting up with people from across the world. And you kind of just get to hang out and do everything web related, really. And you get to visit some cool countries if you don't live in the country that they're hosting the conference in. So this year it is in Porto in Portugal, which I've never been to. So it's going to be a new one off the list. And I don't think you've been there either?

[00:06:07.870] - Jonathan
Not at all. Nope.

[00:06:09.490] - Taylor
So, yeah, that's basically WordCamp, really.

[00:06:12.610] - Jonathan
So it's interesting because typically prior to Covid, there would be WordCamp in most developed continents. So you'd have WordCamp, Asia; WordCamp US, etc. And there was one in 2019 in the US in the city of St. Louis. And I was already in the Oxygen ecosystem, and I remember there was a few posts about it, just maybe five or six people that had said they were going to WordCamp US. St. Louis is not far from me. Well, in US terms it's not far. It would be about a twelve hour drive.

[00:06:46.590] - Taylor
That's like off the top of Scotland.

[00:06:46.590] - Jonathan
Yeah. Off the edge of Scotland. But I thought, "WordCamp sounds cool. I'll go in 2020, I'll go next year." And of course, now here we are, two years later.

[00:06:58.260] - Taylor
Three years later.

[00:06:59.380] - Jonathan
Yeah, there we go. Three full years later. I'm incredibly excited because my original plan was to go when Covid kicked off. I fully expected, I was like, by October, I think we'll be okay. I think we'll have a WordCamp US. And two years later, here we are now in Porto, or soon to be in Porto, I guess. And I'm really thrilled, it should be a good time. I'm honestly most excited about the networking opportunity, seeing the people, other community members and getting to know other folks. I'm sure there's going to be tons of interesting people that we have no idea will even be in attendance. So I'm really looking forward to it.

[00:07:37.840] - Gordon
These sort of events actually are really important, I think, especially if you're in the business of WordPress, which we all three are. Because the contacts that you make and the people that you talk to become resources and friends and colleagues in the future.

[00:07:55.420] - Taylor
And also influences. I'm friends with the CEO of WP Manage Ninja, who has the plug-ins of Fluent Forms, Fluent CRM.

[00:08:05.850] - Gordon
Fluent Support.

[00:08:06.800] - Taylor
Yeah, Fluent Support, WP Social Ninja, some top great plug-ins. And I've influenced probably a handful of the plug-ins and the features that now a lot of people rely on. And it's kind of because I have that connection of like, "look, we need this feature," or I've implemented and been like, "hey, can you just put this into the main plug-in so that I don't have to sell it?"

[00:08:28.100] - Gordon
And that came about because there was a feature that you wanted that it didn't already do and so you approached them and said, "look, I'd love it to be able to do this." And they may not have thought in those terms. And all of a sudden this is a customer saying this is a feature we want. And it's like they have to evaluate whether it's going to be of use to lots of people or just you. And so the nice thing is that the things that you have considered and gone to them with, they've obviously decided is a mass feature that they want.

[00:08:58.190] - Taylor
Especially in the Fluent Form community I'm very respected because I spend a lot of time answering people's questions, and giving out code that people can use and things like that. The other day there was someone linking to a GitHub snippet and I thought, "that kind of looks familiar." And I clicked on it and funnily enough, it was my snippet that I'd written probably about a year ago that I'd forgotten about, that I didn't really pay much attention to. I kind of just threw it together to help someone and gave them a base kind of guidance from it. And this person was like "I use this on all my websites." I was like, "wow, I didn't realize."

[00:09:32.200] - Gordon
And it's really nice to see your code in the wild and someone else using it. Do you find this happens with you as well? Maybe you have because... I must explain, Jonathan, my brain was going "Permaslug - Jonathan," does lots of tutorial videos. He's got his own YouTube channel and I highly recommend you go and check it out.

[00:09:52.620] - Taylor
And a course as well for new Oxygen users as well.

[00:09:55.230] - Gordon
And if you're interested in Oxygen, then there is no better course than Jonathan's. I'm sure he will tell you about that in a moment. But yeah, go and check out his channel. He has a lot of very sensible things and he talks about it in a very interesting way that keeps you engaged so you can learn what it's all about. And can I, just before you carry on, I just want to say I'm so sorry we don't have a door here, it's actually here. If you watch his videos, you'll understand. But yeah, I mean, do you find that your tutorials or things that you've spoken about are picked up by people and you sort of discover them down the road?

[00:10:35.700] - Jonathan
Yeah. What's interesting, I was going to quickly mention as well, I want to answer that question, but on the WordCamp front, the other thing that I think we'll find too is that people who would otherwise potentially never give us the time of day, will then consider us friends, and we can reach out to these people. I think other CEOs of companies that are much larger, or people that are influential in these businesses. And that's something I'm super excited about. So answering your question and kind of seeing what Taylor has seen, it's a little bit kind of indirect where the people will kind of watch the videos and follow the tutorials and amass a knowledge and then they come back months later and they'll say, "this helped me tremendously. I was able to work on a project that would have been too big or too complex just a few months ago." And so that's really cool. And I think the vast majority of people don't reach out, but the ones that do definitely stand out. And it makes the times where I question, is this worth it? Why do I do this? It definitely makes those times worth it.

[00:11:38.210] - Taylor
I think you get a lot is kind of like people go on looking for support in the Facebook or Discord going, "I followed this tutorial, but I'm not sure how to do this." And I think for you, from what happened with me, if you're kind of like, "hang on, that's my content that I've produced, they're sharing it, they're using it," and then people talking about it saying, "really good course, I highly recommend it," when people ask "Is it worth it?" Or things like that.

[00:12:03.140] - Gordon
And one of the things that your videos are very good at are, it's sort of looking over the shoulder at someone building something. So you can see, because Jonathan does a lot of streaming where he's building something, either because he's trying out a new feature, or he's got a site that he's trying to build; and he talks about the problems that he's coming up against and you see his thought process, which is really important. But then more importantly, the solutions that he comes up with as well, some of which maybe not have been done before. That was bad English. Some of which haven't been done before. And he's sort of discovered a new sort of solution to a problem. And it's really nice because you have the community watching you.

[00:12:50.610] - Taylor
Giving suggestions.

[00:12:50.610] - Gordon
Yeah, exactly. The nice thing is you suddenly get people going, "you've forgotten to turn that feature off" and you go, "oh, yeah, you're right, thank you."

[00:12:59.110] - Taylor
You missed a semicolon.

[00:12:59.920] - Gordon
Yeah, exactly.

[00:13:01.230] - Jonathan
Tons of stuff.

[00:13:01.720] - Gordon
That happens, yeah.

[00:13:02.450] - Jonathan
I mean, everything from the most basic misspelling and some CSS, putting a pound sign instead of a period or whatever, something like that.

[00:13:10.920] - Gordon
Hash sign in the UK.

[00:13:14.410] - Jonathan
Yes, yes. And the streaming is really fun because people like to see the mistakes. That's something that a lot of my earlier videos.

[00:13:22.090] - Gordon
Warts and all.

[00:13:22.090] - Jonathan
Yeah, they would like to see the mistakes, but in my earlier videos I would edit them out to be extremely polished. So there was no mistakes, no accidental clicks, no mouse movements that were unintentional, and of course...

[00:13:36.010] - Gordon
Which takes hours.

[00:13:37.440] - Jonathan
Absolutely. Generally the video run time would be about five X for the editing time. So if it's a 20 minutes video, suddenly it turns into an hour or more just to edit. And it's been a really interesting evolution. I still like to do those more polished videos when I know the subject matter really well, but I find the streaming is great if I'm exploring something too. If I'm relatively new to it, then people can learn along with me. And it's pretty cool.

[00:14:04.090] - Gordon
And it's also good if you want to get sort of, I know you've just done one on Oxygen Four, which has just come out, and you sort of jumped in and we're exploring the features. And I think even Elijah was on the community, which is... Elijah is sort of like the head honcho at Oxygen. And so it's really nice for everyone to sort of go, "what happens if you do this?" And you can just try things out and do it live?

[00:14:29.530] - Taylor
Especially if you don't have the time to go and set up a new install, install the new latest update to try out because you may be out, for example, when this gets released, or you may have just woken up or whatever, depending on what time zone you're in.

[00:14:42.300] - Gordon
And when something new like that comes out, it's good to get the information out to people as quickly as possible. And streaming is a good way of doing that.

[00:14:49.250] - Jonathan
Yeah, I started that stream probably like 15 minutes after the post came out. And I remember I was talking to Taylor at that point, and he said, "are you going to stream?" And I was like, "Err, no, I don't think so." And then Elijah messaged me and said, "do you want to stream this? I'll join." And I said, "okay, all right, fine."

[00:15:05.520] - Taylor
Wow!

[00:15:05.762] - Gordon
What?!

[00:15:05.780] - Jonathan
You guys pushed me.

[00:15:06.550] - Taylor
When I say you should stream you're like, "err I don't know, maybe." Elijah goes yep. "Okay, I'll be on there."

[00:15:11.790] - Jonathan
I had two people pushing me to stream it that day. I just felt like it was an omen. I needed to do it. And that worked out to be the second most popular stream I've ever done in terms of live viewership. So, that was really cool. It's a good feeling, too, when you have people there.

[00:15:25.500] - Gordon
So maybe these decisions that you make, as in not streaming, and not going to St. Louis, maybe you should be rethinking these and talk to other people about them. Talk to Elijah and Taylor before you decide on these things.

[00:15:36.700] - Jonathan
They'll pretty much tell me the opposite, and I need to listen to them it seems.

[00:15:39.950] - Gordon
I just love the fact that you are going to Porto in Europe, in Portugal, to a WordCamp, because you decided not to go down the road to St. Louis to go to the one in 2019.

[00:15:53.570] - Jonathan
I honestly don't remember why I didn't choose to go. Because I definitely, it wasn't a financial thing, it wasn't a time. It was really just like a, "oh, there will be one next year."

[00:16:03.660] - Gordon
There'll be another one. I'll do that.

[00:16:05.110] - Jonathan
Exactly.

[00:16:05.520] - Gordon
And that's something we should focus on. Don't put off tomorrow what you can do today.

[00:16:11.750] - Jonathan
Especially something fun.

[00:16:12.600] - Gordon
Main reason is, because if you do it today and like it, well, you can do it again tomorrow. Yeah. But it's true, because if you had done that, this would be your second WordCamp, and then you'd have had an idea of how it all works. And as it is, you're going in blind as a celebrity, obviously.

[00:16:30.890] - Jonathan
Minor celebrity.

[00:16:32.130] - Gordon
So, talking about that. I mean, how many people do you expect to be at WordCamp that will have known of you? Both of you?

[00:16:40.450] - Jonathan
It's a great question because Taylor and I were talking about that yesterday, and I've never been recognized on the streets. I live in a small town in Florida, but I've never been recognized in person, but I have people all the time, like in other Zoom communities, separate from Oxygen, and they're like, "wait a second, you're that guy from YouTube." I'm like, "hey, that's me."

[00:16:59.920] - Gordon
Nice feeling.

[00:17:01.430] - Taylor
Outside of the Oxygen community, I don't think there'll be many people that know, unless you've been in or just come across Oxygen at least once. You probably will know, you may know Jonathan. Probably not me because I'm not as big. I'm mainly just big in the comments of a lot of the Discord and Facebook groups. But yeah, we were talking about how someone had posted and said, "who's going to WordCamp?" In a couple of the Facebook groups, so the Fluent Forms and the Oxygen group and stuff. And there were quite a few people that kind of commented saying yes, they're going. And we were talking about how can we get it so everyone can meet up without individually talking to everyone. And so we kind of came up with the idea if we say, "we're going to be here with me, Jonathan, maybe a couple of other people like David and Raddos who are from 'Oxygen Ninja' and 'Motion Page,' and then maybe a couple of other people," then they're going to want to come and see us.

[00:17:54.750] - Gordon
The ones that want to and know about it will definitely come and see you. That's a great solution.

[00:17:59.070] - Taylor
That's the easiest way to say, "we're going to be here, you can come and see us. We're going to be here regardless of if you come or not."

[00:18:04.590] - Gordon
And we'll talk to you. All you need to do is buy us a drink. There you go. That's very interesting. So what specifically are you both looking to get out of this? Obviously networking we know about that. Is there anything else in particular? You have sort of an agenda, as it were?

[00:18:24.030] - Taylor
For me, mainly I want to be looking towards, outside of Oxygen and into Gutenberg and into 'headless WordPress,' which is using WordPress just as the back end and then building a front end using the 'Rest API' or 'GraphQL' and using something like 'React' or 'View' on the front end where your front end and the back end are completely separate. And there's multiple reasons you would do this is, it separates the front and the back end. So, if you get a breach on your back end, it's not going to affect the front end and things like that. But it also means you have access to other technology stacks that you otherwise wouldn't. And you could potentially make it faster than native because WordPress is built on PHP, so everything you do is server side, whereas React and things are done client side so it's a different way of working. And it's more code based, but again, you can have more control and you can do a lot more complex stuff with it for that reason.

[00:19:26.040] - Gordon
So there's going to be talks, for example, that you specifically want to go to to learn more, to increase your knowledge and skill sets.

[00:19:35.070] - Taylor
Yeah, exactly.

[00:19:35.070] - Gordon
To push forwards.

[00:19:36.320] - Taylor
And also like plug-in development as well.

[00:19:38.630] - Gordon
Okay, yeah.

[00:19:39.240] - Taylor
In learning how to set up a plug-in.

[00:19:40.650] - Gordon
That's always a good thing to learn.

[00:19:43.470] - Taylor
Setting it up if you're doing object oriented programming, which is setting up classes and things like that if you're doing PHP based coding. And how just to set it up really, and things like that.

[00:19:54.360] - Gordon
I just have this vision of you not actually sleeping for the whole time you're there and just sort of going from one place to another, talking to people, listening to people, grabbing a bit of food, grabbing your laptop, which is going to be running out of power all the time, and not sleeping at all until you get home.

[00:20:12.220] - Taylor
I have a charger so it's okay.

[00:20:13.180] - Gordon
Sleeping for the week.

[00:20:14.720] - Taylor
Pretty much.

[00:20:16.710] - Gordon
So, Jonathan?

[00:20:17.390] - Jonathan
Yeah. So for me, the technical stuff is interesting, but I think in my business, I'm more focused on kind of the sales and marketing side, and bringing clients in. So what I'm really looking forward to is, there's two people from my team coming that I've never, well actually that's not true. One person I haven't met in person. And so it's going to be really good to connect with him. So I'm actually really looking forward to all of us being in the same place and being able to talk about things like what sort of projects do we want to work on? What kind of things do we want to be working towards?

[00:20:52.130] - Gordon
What sort of client are you looking for?

[00:20:53.980] - Jonathan
Exactly? Or potentially what other non-client facing projects can we work on that would be plug-ins or other website projects, anything that could be...

[00:21:04.010] - Gordon
An additional stream, income stream. Yeah.

[00:21:06.760] - Jonathan
So that's going to be really exciting. But that all ties exactly back into what Taylor was discussing, because I think Gutenberg needs to be a big focus area for my company, which it's currently not at all. And it's something that, I know Taylor's been pushing me towards for a while, and I've been listening, but I just have been silently kind of in the background watching it develop. But it seems to me that...

[00:21:27.270] - Gordon
It's got to that point now, hasn't it? It's got more mature.

[00:21:28.750] - Taylor
It's not going anywhere.

[00:21:30.330] - Gordon
And it is getting better and better every iteration.

[00:21:34.770] - Jonathan
Yeah, so the networking component, just being able to spend time with everybody in person, and then hopefully picking up some... What I really want is one little golden nugget out of it. And that's what I'm after. Just one bit of information that makes me twist my thinking and potentially steer the whole business in a new direction.

[00:21:53.520] - Taylor
They sell Golden Nuggets in cereal packets. You can probably just buy one in there.

[00:21:56.620] - Jonathan
I'm looking for one a bit more valuable, one not edible.

[00:21:59.980] - Taylor
Just overpay for it.

[00:22:02.140] - Jonathan
Yep, absolutely.

[00:22:04.000] - Gordon
So this is very exciting. So you both leave on...

[00:22:07.460] - Taylor
Thursday.

[00:22:08.140] - Gordon
Tomorrow. Okay. So you will be there on Friday, which is when we normally go live, which is the reason for recording this. We just couldn't pass up the opportunity of having Jonathan on This Week With, and I think it's been a really interesting discussion, actually. I'm so pleased you agreed to do this.

[00:22:28.990] - Jonathan
Thanks for not letting me back out last night. 'Cos I almost did.

[00:22:32.780] - Gordon
Yeah. So is there anything you two want to say before we sort of wrap up?

[00:22:37.780] - Taylor
No, nothing from me.

[00:22:39.470] - Jonathan
No, I think I'm good.

[00:22:41.410] - Gordon
Okay. So, I suspect our next episode will be all about what happened at WordCamp. So I don't know if you're going to be here, but if you are, then you are very welcome to join us again and tell us what you thought of the event. Last question for you two, who do you recommend goes to WordCamp? Because there may be people who are listening to this going, "I'm not sure if this is for me. I don't know if it's the sort of thing I should be going to or not." So what sort of person do you think should be going, no matter what, to this WordCamp or to any WordCamp?

[00:23:15.770] - Jonathan
Yeah.

[00:23:16.300] - Taylor
I would say people who use WordPress and people that have an interest in it, both from an open source contributing point of view, or from a point of view that you run a business, maybe.

[00:23:29.910] - Gordon
So you're including users of WordPress in this?

[00:23:32.890] - Taylor
I think you could, if you build your site. If you're a DIY person.

[00:23:37.310] - Gordon
So not someone that has a company like us build the site and then they just sort of add a bit of content, but someone who actually builds their own site.

[00:23:45.360] - Taylor
I think that it could be of value, because you're going to be learning. There's going to be lots of stuff on Gutenberg which obviously is up and coming. So you're going to want to know what's up and coming and things like that. It's kind of like just going and looking through the change log of a product, but you're doing it in real life to see what things are being built, what's coming up and things. Or even things you may not have thought about, because there's obviously lots of sponsors of, mainly plug-in people, and hosting companies that you think, "hang on, I've been paying this much a month, but if I move to them, I can not only increase my speed, my security, but also decrease my prices or how much I pay." Or you think, "okay, well, this plug-in does pretty much exactly what I want that I've never thought about, but could increase sales."

[00:24:33.810] - Taylor
Yeah, so that's something we didn't mention. I guess you get to see the products. I'm guessing there's going to be some sort of sales area where you can actually go and play with products and plug-ins and premium plug-ins, for example, that you would normally have to pay for to be able to play with. You get to go and play with them and ask the people who develop them if this is coming in the roadmap, if this is already available, that sort of thing. So it's a way to see what the future, or the near future is holding for you as well. As developers that's quite important.

[00:25:06.570] - Jonathan
Yeah. One other point I was going to add to Taylor's comment about who should go to WordCamp. There's two people on my team coming that are both more involved in the design kind of UI UX side of things rather than the development of WordPress. But what they do is directly involved in it, and it involves the development side of the team. So they are interested because there are a few design related talks and it's things like designing for accessibility.

[00:25:31.130] - Taylor
Yeah, that's a big thing.

[00:25:31.130] - Jonathan
Or designing for specific use cases or specific types of clients, and utilizing. Wordpress and its feature set to help assist in the design side of things too. So there's two different talks on the second day that the design team is really excited about. So that's going to be cool to have us, probably all in different sessions. Like Taylor's probably going to be more interested in the hardcore coding, I'll be more interested in the sales and networking, and they'll be in the design. So we'll all kind of be in different places, absorbing.

[00:26:00.720] - Gordon
Which is great because then you can go and talk to each other about what you've missed and... Do you get recordings of any of these?

[00:26:07.980] - Jonathan
We do, yeah.

[00:26:08.600] - Gordon
Okay. So that's good. So even if you don't get to go to them, you can watch them again after?

[00:26:12.260] - Jonathan
Yeah.

[00:26:12.650] - Gordon
Perfect.

[00:26:13.300] - Jonathan
Absolutely.

[00:26:13.920] - Gordon
That's really cool. So I think. Are we done?

[00:26:17.700] - Jonathan
Sounds like it.

[00:26:18.320] - Gordon
We're done. Thank you so much for joining us. Before I sign off, next week, as well as potentially talking about WordCamp, we also have Apple making their WWDC 'Worldwide Developers Conference' starts on the 6 of June, which is Monday, I think. Yes. So there's going to be a lot of news about upcoming OS updates, so I suspect that may be coming up in the next episode as well. So if that's something of interest to you, make sure you join us. As always, we can be found on YouTube and on Facebook. Please like, share, and subscribe and make sure that you follow Jonathan, because he's got some great content already out there and I know there's some great stuff coming. And if you feel that Oxygen is something that you like and you want to know more about, definitely go and get his course. We haven't given him much chance to talk about it, but he has a fantastic course all about Oxygen. It will take you from a complete newbie to a proficient expert I would say, just by following through the course. We'll make sure we put a link to the course in the notes so that you can very quickly and easily get to that. That's my very long bit done. Taylor, your next bit.

[00:27:39.800] - Taylor
You can also go to our website thisweekwith.co.uk to find all of our past episodes, anything we may have spoken about and search, if you are interested in other topics.

[00:27:49.540] - Gordon
And how do people contact you, Jonathan?

[00:27:51.490] - Jonathan
So you can find me on YouTube, you just type in Permaslug. That's a weird word, people sometimes ask where it came from. It's 'Permalink' and 'slug' in WordPress. That's where that name came from. And then you can also find the agency site at Goapex.io.

[00:28:06.230] - Gordon
And again, we'll put links for those in the notes. So thank you so much for joining us for this very special episode. As always, we are going to be found streaming normally at 1pm on a Friday afternoon. This is a little bit different because we've recorded it earlier but it is going out at the normal time. So until next week, have a fantastic week. We hope you have a lovely time in Porto, both of you.

[00:28:32.380] - Taylor
Thank you very much.

[00:28:32.888] - Jonathan
Thank you.

[00:28:32.960] - Gordon
I'm looking forward to hearing all about it. So, it's goodbye from me. I'm Gordon and I'm from Drayson Design.

[00:28:38.690] - Taylor
I'm Taylor from The Creative Tinker.

[00:28:40.890] - Jonathan
Jonathan Jernigan, Apex Web Solutions.

[00:28:43.300] - Gordon
Goodbye everyone.

[00:28:43.970] - Taylor
Bye.

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